Please explain to me the difference between the U.S.S.R.’s politburo summoning its union republic leaders to the Kremlin in Moscow for procedural dictates and Clear Channel summoning its 250 general managers to Dallas tomorrow and Wednesday for the same.
Hear me out. The likenesses are worthy of note. The Soviet Union was a federation made up of Soviet Socialist Republics. The earliest Republics were established after the 1917 October Revolution by Vladimir Lenin and the first Congress of Soviets. Between 1922 and 1940, the number of Republics increased to sixteen, created from territories acquired, or reacquired by the Soviet Union. Others were created by re-designating existing Republics into several parts. It’s akin to moving your city of license around while the F.C.C. Chairman is wearing the blindfold you provided.
Following the last major territorial annexations of the Baltic states, eastern Poland, Bessarabia, and other territories during World War II, it became the model for Communist states, like Clear Channel did for radio deregulation. The Soviet Union and the U.S. became the two world superpowers dominating world military operations, foreign affairs, economic policy, and scientific advancements until the former’s collapse in the mid to late eighties.
Clear Channel, a U.S. media conglomerate, was founded in 1972 by Lowry Mays and Red McCombs. By 1995, Clear Channel owned 43 U.S. radio stations and 16 television stations. In 1996, following the signing of the Telecommunications Act, Clear Channel acquired over 70 other media companies, as well as picking and choosing a number of stand-alone properties. It also bought billboard/outdoor companies, a national concert promotion company, SFX and the Cleveland-based Belkin Productions.
Even after selling its concert division and 161 radio stations, Clear Channel remains a dominant media influence with billboard/outdoor advertising in twenty-five countries, and is still largest owner of AM, FM, and shortwave radio stations . It also controls twelve channels on XM Satellite Radio and has financial interest in radio stations in Mexico, New Zealand, Australia, and Norway. Those Mexican Clear Channel licenses? You may want to click here to get the real story on those. Clear Channel sold its TV properties in 2008. The publicly-traded Clear Channel was privatized on July 24, 2008 when bought out by two Boston-based private equity firms, BainCapital and Thomas H. Lee.
Look it up. For years I’ve been calling the fallout of radio deregulation privatized socialism.
For what it’s worth, Vladimir Lenin banned rival political parties, while Clear Channel banned several songs written by John Lennon.
We’re now less than 24 hours from learning of the new world order BainCapital and Thomas H. Lee structured for the newly privatized Clear Channel.
In business, as in world affairs, what’s obvious usually turns out to be true.
Bain-Lee’s desperately trying to cover its Clear Channel assets with both hands.
Like the politburo, there is no agenda at Bain-Capital’s new world order Clear Channel. General Managers will be handed their budgets and marching orders. It’s their version of Democratic Centralism.
In another cost-cutting measure, the GMs will be limited to one overnight stay. I couldn’t verify the rumor that the one complementary meal the managers will be treated to will be a bowl of borscht soup with a side of unbuttered rye bread.
Rumors emanating from the dime-droppers and snitches at the Clear Channel San Antonio headquarters persist that the futures of air talent and account executives have been predetermined and it will be up to the general managers to carry out terminations swiftly and completely upon their return.
It’ll be easy to spot the Clear Channel GMs at DFW. Look for anyone resembling a beaten pound dog.
I’m inclined to accept that the majority of rumors – the 15 nationally-programmed formats; further staff reductions, and a discernible increase in voice tracking and syndicated personalities – are true.
It’s also likely that all but the top ten markets one programmer will be accountable to facilitate corporate commands for each multi-station market operation.
Since going private under Bain-Lee, Clear Channel budgets are now defined as “sucking the marrow out of the bone and macerating the remains.”
Why would Clear Channel need local announcers when it has a stable of nationally syndicated talk show wackjobs; pretty boy hit radio announcers, and album rock shock jocks? Serving the city of license? Why? Come on, get serious!
Don’t confuse them with the fact that by not having a farm team to develop talent for the future will be their demise when some of their national hosts inevitably fall from grace.
Make sense, doesn’t it? Purge talent and creativity and replace with top-down decrees.
They also refuse to acknowledge that several non-Clear Channel stations are probing the present and future value of long-in-the-tooth hate-monger acts like Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck and pop psych from Dr. Laura. They aren’t drawing younger demos and Limbaugh’s contract is proving to be unprofitable for several non-Clear Channel stations carrying the show.
The Clear Channel politburo never learns from their mistakes. They don’t have to. Their subordinates do and that’s tough.
What Clear Channel has never been able to discern is that it’s in the entertainment business. Here’s the straightforward definition: You put on a show, promise people something transcendent, and make money doing it. If you’re a movie, a sporting event or a concert, you sell tickets; if you’re a radio or TV station, you sell time. You’ll make money if you provide the fulfillment.
I’ve been asked at book signings why I haven’t followed up with a book about Clear Channel. In addition to recommending Alec Foege’s Right Side of the Dial, I feel if there is another book to be written about Bain-Lee’s privatization of the company it should be done by Stephen King – because this one will be truly frightening. I don’t want to give away the plot but it ends with Clear Channel so out of touch with what the radio audience wants that everyone stops listening to their stations; clients stop advertising, and to survive they must feed on themselves.
I anticipate that Bain-Lee and Clear Channel will follow the same pattern of a doomed romance. First discovery, then infatuation, then familiarity and, finally, contempt.
When you give one the power to save you, you give them the power to destroy you as well. So far, the Mays family still feels lucky. But luck, in due course, runs out. Just like the Soviet Union’s.
61 comments:
I have listened to Dr. Laura, and she is one of the most abusive bitches, with her callers, on radio. Seems most of her listeners have some sort of abusive backgrounds and go to her to continue the daily cycle.
You are correct about most of syndicated radio with the exception of Rush. I still find myself entertained by his show and think Rush has many good years ahead of him. Most of the rest are a bunch of unentertaining blowhards. I think the model for local talk should be "Eddie and Tracy" or Daryl Parks on WLW. Certainly not all people love them, but I find them very entertaining.
For the most part Clear Channel has done this already with their national playlists and voice tracking. "Schedule" and "play" as these bozos will learn will not compete against a personal iPod on shuffle. The final elements of surprise which once made radio listening unique are now gone.
You can picture the hammer and the Clear Channel "C" as the sickle in their logo.
I don't think anyone every did a comparison of Clear Channel with the Communist Russia before and it makes sense.
It is not Clear Channel that will learn the hard way. Bain Capital and Thomas Lee have to pay the Mays family off. It will be Bain and Lee that will be forced to face the reality that you cannot run radio like Burlington Coat Factory or Dunkin' Donut.
If their plans were to chop up Clear Channel and portion it out for sale they will learn how little their stations are really worth.
i disagree w/poster 2. rush is not what he once was and the america he stood for has been brought to its knees. this country needs people that will heal it and not divide it the way rush has done. it is a shame he has been able to spread his message of hate and division. young people see through his disguise & those losing their jobs & life savings truly see what his vision of american really means to them.
Love the Stephen King line! You are so right.
Moskva slezam ne verit and neither does Clear Channel. Those GMs will have to excuse themselves to the rest rooms to cry.
>> it is a shame he has been able to spread his message of hate and division. young people see through his disguise <<
Yes, let's all be in lockstep and (dare) not disagree and have only a single point of view like Hitler...or Clear Channel. If you think that hatred and disagreement are the same thing, you need to de-wimp yourself. They're not the same thing. Our country was founded on and has thrived on disagreement for centuries.
It's difficult to feel sorry for a hedge fund, but that's how I feel regarding Bain. They were really sold a bill of goods by slick carny shysters from San Antonio who found some suckers.
My theory is that the Mays brothers could see the early downward trending of sales and started looking feverishly for buyers before the word got out about the future state of the radio business.
This is what it has come to. If I were John Hogan I would not get too comfortable. This may be the last time he gets to play his sadistic role of Clear Channel demigod. The policies you mention will nail the CC coffin tightly. John, you are signing your own death warrant. Hope you get a nice package from CC and also hope you enjoy being alone because you will not have a friend in the world.
Clueless Mark Mays sent this memo:
Good morning.
Beginnings are a gift. They are an opportunity to put past disappointments behind us. They are a chance to tap new resolve. They allow us the prospect for renewal.
As we head into 2009, we will need to take advantage of all of this and more.
There are two generations now in the workforce that have yet to feel the effects of a significant recession in their working lives. While there certainly have been recessions in specific business sectors over the past 20 years, what we are looking at in 2009 is broad, deep, and sustained.
These types of recessions can be brutal things. They force tough decisions every day. The demand focus and clarity all the time. And they test our resolve ... regularly.
So what's the best strategy for this environment? Well, it's threefold.
1. Focus. Our ability to focus as a company and as individuals on our most productive priorities will define our success in 2009. Because focus is the ability to spot change -- whether a new opportunity or a potentially negative change in customer behaviors -- and respond to it rapidly. Focus is the ability to get the job done amidst the uncertainty and distraction that a recession can bring. And ultimately, focus gives us the opportunity to succeed when others fail.
2. Resilience. The next year may well see once-strong competitors disappear. Recessions also up-end cherished ways of doing business. And as we've already seen throughout the industry, recessions drive change that is fast and hard. Through all of this, it will be the ability to see the glass half full -- to make the choice to focus on the opportunities instead of the losses -- to keep coming back until interest is converted into action, that will define the winners in 2009. We will face continued challenges in the new year -- and our ability to handle them with grace and resilience has never been more important.
3. Determination. This recession will beat many. There will be obstacles that competitors and colleagues alike will find insurmountable. That, simply, cannot be us. We have always been the company that leads our industries out of the difficulties. We have always been the company that outperforms the pack. In 2009, that same determination that has historically made us strong must sustain us again.
So as we celebrate this new beginning, please also know that you have the focus and resilience and determination of the entire executive team alongside you. You have the best resources in the industry at your disposal. You have the confidence and the support of everyone in this organization.
And you have my personal confidence that we will succeed together.
Great blog, John. I just read Mark Mays's memo. Good news for Mark and the family. They did not have e-mail that many copies. Maybe we can get a heads up on who stays and who goes by finding out who did not get the memo. On the other hand leave it to that sadist John Hogan to make sure everyone who is getting fired gets the memo, too. I pity the GMs that have to face that a-hole tomorrow and Wednesday.
Believe it or not, the prospects for Clear Channel employees will be better than those at many other stations. I'm not saying the meetings won't prompt some layoffs, but they will be extremely limited. And changes to programming will be very gradual and largely at the discretion of local management. If on-air staff is willing to accept reasonable salaries, they will be retained provided they are delivering audience.
Bain-Lee's plan all along was to buy this company and stabilize/build it for the next few years until they can sell. Their attitude is: let the other guys go out of business and then when we're one of the few left standing, we'll sell for a premium. They understand that requires some patience and some cash. In case you aren't aware, there's about $10 trillion right now sitting out the stock market turmoil. Bain-Lee owns part of that pile. They have the cash to keep this company moving, and they will use it until or unless it becomes clear that CC is a dead duck. The horror stories that are coming, and they will be many, will come from other companies.
Now the above is just my reasonably informed speculation, but I'd be very surprised to be wrong.
I have to disagree with the poster defending CC/Bain/Lee. The Mays family pulled off a good scam at Bain/Lee's expense. Maybe they can digest it for now. It is true that Farid, Lew Dickey and others will have to do their own massacres shortly. I think CC is different. Those who had to meet with Hogan in previous meetings have nothing good to say about them. Bain/Lee has to be pissed at the way this deal came down and that they have to pay off the Mays family for something proving to have a diminishing return. The only good to come out of this is when some of these chains go into receivership and are purchased by those who know how to run radio effectively. It will be a rough six months. By then most of the scam artists will be out of the business.
Damn it John! Please stop drawing attention to the business practices at CC. When you do this, it makes it more likely that they may change the way operate, change the programming philosophy, thus potentially increasing their ratings and diluting the ad revenue they are currently missing out on due to poor ratings performance. I would prefer you simply pat them on their heads, tell them they are doing a great job and allow the rest of us that are doing things the right way the ability to eat their lunch. More is more.
I never thought about the comparison of Clear Channel with the USSR but it makes sense. I see little difference in their empire building methods. The wall will come tumbling down. This one won't be in Berlin. It will be in San Antonio.
I never thought about the comparison of Clear Channel with the USSR but it makes sense. I see little difference in their empire building methods. The wall will come tumbling down. This one won't be in Berlin. It will be in San Antonio.
John!!!! You got it wrong. The rye bread cost extra.
So apt a comparison.
Our intelligence indicates that there is confusion in the KlearKremlin right now; there seems to be a developing power struggle between John Hoganovich Krushchev and potential rivals. Our guess is that Hoganovich's time is limited and he will be either marginalized to his dacha outside San Antonio, or sent to the PR gulag for failing to krush ze insolent radio republiks qho objekt to Komerad Rush-ky.
We have indications by satellite and SOSUS that the KlearKhannel Red Navy is firing up its power plants and making ready to sortie.
We recommend setting for DEFCON 3 until intentions become more clear.
We do wonder if there might be an undercurrent of rebellion in some of the outlying SSRs -- Cincinnati, capital of Jacoronia, is abuzz with rumors of intrigue and disobedience. Might we have another Baltic summer, or is Komerad Parksky a hardliner?
Either way, we wonder Komerad Cunninghamski may have outlived his usefulness . . .
I think Clear Channel is run more like Pottslvania, that fictional country from the Bullwinkle Show where Boris, Natasha, Fearless Leader and Mr. Big came from. Clear Channel is more of a comical version the Soviets. The Soviets became a superpower which is something CC is not. Considering all of Clear Channel's holdings it is a very weak and poorly managed company. They ruined Clear Channel concerts. Their outdoor is not doing well at least in this market which has up severely sun-faded boards for their radio stations. One station changed format and they just put the old format billboard up. Their properties in this market are getting half of what they did ten years ago for spots. Even their stations that do well have to be reinforced with sports or syndication. They are poor operators who have driven their best managers and performers away.
Maybe this is an effort to recoup as much money as possible, then start selling back smaller markets to other interests. Some good *could* come of this... maybe a "Mom and Pop" resurgence?
Or maybe there is some kick-ass lawyer out there that could successfully argue that CC is no longer serving the public interest in market (x), and have the FCC start pulling licenses. With that many stations in that many markets, you'd have to be able to prove that SOMEWHERE. And since they only own "gear" and not the frequency, just one of those take over's might scare them back into line.
I don't think clear channel tries to push their talk on the "younger demo"...That's kiss' job.
John -
I agree with 95% of what you have to say about the radio business, but please for the love of God keep the liberal politics to yourself. When you call Limbaugh and Beck "hate mongers", you come off looking ridiculous and it weakens your argument if only slightly. Agree or disagree with their politics, they are both tremendous broadcasters even after all these years in the business. There is nothing "hateful" about them or conservative talkradio, despite what the press would have you believe.
Although, I will concede that Dr. Laura does make me cringe. That I will spot you.
Politics aside, good column.
"Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and pop psych from Dr. Laura aren’t drawing younger demos"
I hate to tell you John, young people haven't even plugged into radio's trailer trash programming. Rush, Glen, Laura and Ingrim draw older demos,so it's easy to understand why AM radio is on it's last breath. Anyone who's under 25 hasn't been sucked into to their dramas and pack of lies. They see through their brand of crap.. Heck they don't even know what AM/talk radio is..
And what about FM radio? Apples Steve Jobs built better jukeboxes that plays music loved by individuals. It's something mass media can never except, because in doing so they would admit they've become irrelevant.
Radio was once more than music, now it's cloned jukeboxes with button pushing fillers
Who wants more of this in HD???
nobody..
I think the point about younger demos is that Rush Limbaugh, Dr. Laura and Glen Beck's audience is in a fixed demographic position like the proverbial pig in the python. They are hanging on to that audience but not attracting a younger audience that may be more attractive to some time buys. I heard that a station in Pennsylvania (Erie?) is dropping Rush because they can no longer make money from his show. This is a problem Clear Channel's Premiere will be faced with. There are always exceptions to the rule but they are still exceptions. A local show will usually beat a national show unless it is a mega star like Howard Stern once was. With Clear Channel going the non-local route it will create opportunities for other stations to program locally against them and win. Then again it may work in reverse and other broadcasters may say if Clear Channel can do it, we can too.
I wonder if there are any GMs that will not be coming back? I can think of one.
If the Mays family and Bain Capital/Thomas H. Lee believe they will survive 2009 they should consider these facts. This year there is no political, no Olympics. Auto advertising will be way down from prior years. Did you hear the news? More cars were junked than sold in the last quarter.
I look forward to watching you attempt to sell this shell of a content-less company. The ad community is not going to waste their money on your radio stations. There are other mediums to buy that are far more cost effective and if radio must be part of buy there are stations other than Clear Channel that still have local programming, live talent and decent time spent listening
Mark, I know Lowry Mays and you are not him. Your a snot nosed trust fund kid with a chip on your shoulder and you don't know shit from shinola.
So here's a simple question:
If Clear Channel is so bad, and their stations suck, why are their stations at the top of the ratings in just about every market? Please don't tell me because their signals are so powerful, because that's not a good answer.
Don't be fooled. John Hogan looks forward to these meetings where he can belittle and demean his managers.
Regarding Clear Channel ratings. Yes, they do lead in some markets but time spent listening is down across the board and fewer people listen to the radio in general. This is Clear Channel's legacy. You have the want-to-be John Hogans most notably Dan Mason at CBS who has turned that chain into a shell of its former self. Be proud Clear Channel. You have destroyed the radio industry. Clients are finding successful alternatives to buying time on radio. Even when you win you lose, Mr. Hogan. We cannot give you all the credit. Faird Suleman, Mel Karmazan and others all share in its demise too.
Does this mean that CCU WILL STOP JAMMING OUR FUCKING AIRWAYS ON AM RADIO? LMFAO!
"They were really sold a bill of goods by slick carny shysters from San Antonio who found some suckers."
No, you mean some slick carny shysters from Columbia, Md. LOL!
"By then most of the scam artists will be out of the business."
Does that include the shysters in Columbia, Md? LOL!
"Yes, they do lead in some markets but time spent listening is down across the board"
I'd like to see you prove a connection between CC and TSL. A direct causal relationship. Show me.
There are many markets where Clear Channel does poorly.
http://www.thepowerpig.com/audio/AsQBurns-EvilTexasBanker.mp3
This was a WFLZ promo from the Power Pig days on the Power Pig tribute site at the height of the Tampa "CHR Wars" circa 1989. They are making fun of Q-105, which was owned by an "evil Texas banker" named "Lowry Mayonaise" (i.e. Lowry Mays) who says "First thing I'm 'onna do is cut costs." Does anybody else find this promo amusingly ironic?
I heard that a station in Pennsylvania (Erie?) is dropping Rush because they can no longer make money from his show.
Annnnnnnnnnnddddddddd....what are they going to replace him with that'll get any audience? Laura Ingraham? I'd rather shoot myself in the mouth than to have to listen to her everyday
When you call Limbaugh and Beck "hate mongers", you come off looking ridiculous and it weakens your argument if only slightly.
What a soft society we live in where people are so insecure about their own view points that a man with a microphone can be so threatening. Rush is anything but a hatemonger. He ridicules libs very effectively mostly because he makes excellent points.
Gorman, you should have listened to me when I told you Hogan was going to whack Jim Corwin in Providence. I gave you all the hints and everything but his name. Now the other market you have interests by the lake in is going to take a hit. At least two people that used to work for you are getting whacked today or tomorrow.
Hey G-man.
Since your tipsters are working overtime let me add another one to your list. "Les is less and Eskimo Dan may be off his plan". Figure it out from there.
It doesn't matter if CC is tops in the ratings in every single market. The total available audience that listens to radio is down. The medium is eroding as advertisers find more effective ways to reach their potential buyers. Who cares if you're #1 when only a handful of people are left listening to radio?
Gorman should leave his liberal agenda at the door.
Great post.
Have you heard any word on this yet?
Tom Taylor's Radio-Info this morning said the figure could be a 1,000 terminated. When you consider how many CC stations esp. in smaller markets are automated and v.o.-ed a good portion of these layoffs could come from medium and large markets. Gorman wasn't too far off with his borscht soup comment either. The meal CC served the GMs was so lame they had to order room service afterward. Maybe they didn't get the rye bread?
John - I know this is about Clear Channel but things are no better at CBS. We have lost over 700 employees and Dan Mason has the nerve to put this out. What he does not tell you is that a good portion of these firings came from the decisions he made that went badly. Please don't censor this. Let your readers know it is not just Clear Channel -
A Look Back And Thoughts On 2009
As I sat down to write this year-end review/2009 preview I did so with mixed emotions. On the one hand I wanted to take the opportunity to enthusiastically boast of all the wonderful things that happened in 2008 -- and be assured there were many. But I also realized that no communication from me would be complete without addressing the myriad difficult decisions we've made this past year that have had an impact on the way we run our business.
I'v always felt it's better to be as candid as possible, and that's how I intend to approach my words as I share with you my vision for our company as I see it today. No one has a crystal ball as to when the current economic climate will turn. The best we can do is adapt to the situation, rely on our strengths, and continue educating ourselves so we strategically and operationally are in a position to capitalize when the economy picks up.
Leading off with what we should feel most proud about -- CBS RADIO will outperform the market in 2008, an accomplishment we haven't realized since 2005. Ratings and revenue improvements at a number of stations we reformatted helped us realize this achievement.
And did you know we are now the largest streaming radio platform? Not bad for a company that was late entering the game. Our online sales in 2008 grew at a double digit pace, and political advertising jumped almost 40% from 2004. We were right to heighten our efforts in this area and the foundation we laid with the campaign strategists will be invaluable during the next electoral process.
Part of the reason we've been so successful in these areas is due to the realignment of our management structure and the shift to a more cluster-based approach in each of our markets. Greater flexibility and increased decision making power by our market managers, directors of sales, and program directors was by far the best way to go. We also took a hard look at every position in our organization and found ways to make our operation run smoother and more efficiently. Working as a cluster is proving far more effective than I imagined as I hear from many of you everyday that things are getting done quicker and management is more responsive to problem solving efforts/solutions.
Unfortunately, not all the news is good. The country's economic situation has magnified our need to re-evaluate how we approach the business and find new ways to increase our market share and grow the bottom line, both of which are totally in our control. While I'm extremely mindful that the process has not been easy for anyone, I want you all to know each decision we make we do with much thought and consideration while being mindful of the long term. And most importantly we must be able to do all of this without compromising the integrity of the product or the company which I believe we have been able to do.
As we enter a new year the most important thing for us is to look forward, not backward. While we honor and respect our past heritage as an industry, we can't be blinded by it or refuse to adapt to current market conditions and the task at hand. We need to continue to "Rethink" at CBS RADIO -- everything we do and how we do it. As you know "Rethink" was the title of the presentation we took on the road last spring and summer to advertisers and the press, and you can bet it will be at the core of everything we do in 2009.
Our company will look to further expose the best talent and programming available within CBS RADIO to even bigger audiences through the use of the latest technology. The way we approach advertisers and potential clients will be greatly coordinated by cluster and region, and making sure our content is available on a wide variety of devices and applications will be even more of a priority than it was in 2008. I suspect the CBS RADIO we know today will continue to evolve over the next 12 months through serious innovation and creativity, constant focus, streamlining, hard work, and increased accountability. That can sound like a scary proposition but the alternative to not evolving is even scarier.
We can do this if we all work together in support of a shared vision for CBS RADIO getting the most out of the talented teams we have built to the fantastic content we produce. Treat this as not only the beginning of a new year but an opportunity to really make an impact on all our constituents in 2009. As part of this I will focus on ways to communicate more with you and task your market managers and direct supervisors to do the same. You need to hear more from us about what we're doing and why we're doing it, but we also need to hear from you about how we can improve what we're doing and how we're doing it. We're all part of the solution and the best ideas, thoughts and commentary can come from anywhere in the organization.
Thank you for working incredibly hard in 2008 and bearing through a difficult time for our company. Your efforts are so very highly appreciated.
Dan
Gorman, BFD about Clear Channel. They only fired 1000 people and most of them are sales weasels that were not performing so stick it up your ass. You run a business, do you keep dead weight on your payroll. Of course not. You talk about the 21ST century but you live in the 20TH. This is how radio is run today. Learn how to deal with it.
how would you like it if you had a family member that lost a job? show some compassion. these people did nothing wrong. they were fired for either making too much money or being too honest in selling time.
John I am late in getting back to you. Thank you for your article on Clear Channel. I do not know what tomorrow will hold for my staff and I. Our manager was among those summoned to Dallas this week. To my CC bretheran -- hang tough. Our day will come. Like John I believe the radio business will have new leadership soon that will recognize our talents.
Hello. My wife and I bought our house about 6 months ago. It was a foreclosure and we were able to get a great deal on it. We also took advantage of the 8K tax credit so that definitely helped. We did an extensive remodeling job and now I want to refinance to cut the term to a 20 or 15 year loan. Does anyone know any good sites for mortgage information? Thanks!
Mike
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